I recently had the opportunity to conduct an interview with the co-founder of Panic, Steven Frank. Steven was asked about everything from Mac OS X to future Panic products, to the ability of young people to get into programming. Read on for his answers.

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Panic came out as an early supporter of Mac OS X with Carbon version of Transmit and Audion. What made you quick to support OS X and do you think it has paid off_

We were quick to bring our apps over to Mac OS X primarily because we were getting a steady stream of customer demand to do so. Especially once Mac OS X Public Beta shipped. Having Classic available on Mac OS X is great, but it doesn't compare with having all of your commonly used apps run natively.

I definitely think it has paid off. For the time being, Audion is pretty much the only commercial-quality audio player (besides QuickTime) running natively on Mac OS X. Apple promised to reward developers who were there early, and they have certainly followed through, placing a very prominent link to Audion on their Mac OS X page.

Will Panic continue to develop in Carbon, or have you guys taken a look at using Cocoa for future products_

That's going to depend on the type of app. I'm definitely more familiar with Carbon than with Cocoa, but the more I learn about Cocoa, the more I like it. Cocoa is the best object-oriented development environment I've ever seen. Carbon doesn't really compare.

Will you be attending WWDC this year, and if so, what are you looking forward to hearing about_

Yes, I'm planning to be at WWDC. This will be my third time. It's always a blast, in a very, very geeky way. I'm looking forward to seeing how Mac OS X has progressed since the Public Beta, and I'm really hoping that we'll see more extensive documentation on Mac OS X-specific services, such as Quartz.

What do you see as some of the greatest advantages Mac OS X has, from both a user and developer perspective_

The advantages from a developer perspective are enormous. There's the full Unix shell with its complement of tools and automation utilities. There's the protected memory, which helps you find memory bugs much more rapidly. We finally have access to well-known and well-tested libraries like pthreads. I could go on and on.

The end-users, I think, may need a little more convincing. I think one of the big things that will sell users on Mac OS X is the first time a rogue-application crashes, and they discover that all their other apps are still running fine, and they don't need to restart.

What do you think software support will be like in the early months of Mac OS X_

That's an interesting question. Here we are about a month before the announced release date of Mac OS X, and I still find myself asking "Where are the apps_" I'd say that 90% of Audion was ported to Carbon in a couple of days. Really. Unless you're writing very low-level driver or utility software, it's just not very hard.

So, my question is where are the big guns_ Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia, etc_ My theory is they must be waiting so they can release simultaneously with the first official, non-beta version of Mac OS X. We had qualms about releasing "preview" software for a beta OS too, since we have this policy of not releasing beta software to the public. But we got a very enthusiastic response from our users for being there on Mac OS X from the very beginning.

If you could change one thing about Mac OS X what would it be_

Debugging a Carbon app on Mac OS X is still very tedious. It's not impossible, but right now it's a lot slower than on Classic Mac OS. Although our main development tools have been Carbonized, they are still going through a period of refinement, which just can't happen fast enough for me.

Is Panic working on any new products, or are updates to the current products the focus right now_

The short term plan will be refining our existing product line. We want to tweak the Mac OS X versions of our products so they look and feel more "Mac OS X-like", and get them out of "preview release" status. The Classic versions of the apps will also benefit from this, since they are built from the same source code. Bugs that are exposed to us by Mac OS X's stricter environment will be fixed, and that's good for anyone using our software on any OS version.

Longer term, we are kicking around some new product ideas. We've no shortage of those. :)

Do you think Mac OS X will be successful_

I think people, especially media, are expecting an overnight success, which I don't think will happen. At first, the early adopters will flock to Mac OS X. The larger population of the more cautious will stay behind. There will be some problems and growing pains. Fortunately Apple has been quite attentive to user feedback on Mac OS X so far, so I think those pains will be addressed. Gradually, as the remainder of the user base starts hearing that, hey, Mac OS X is really impressive, and it's not just a flash in the pan, and it's not going away any time soon, they will join the bandwagon. I think most all of the modern Mac user base will come over, but it might take a year, maybe two. It won't happen on the night of March 24th.

With some larger software companies being slower to embrace new operating systems, do you see an opportunity for smaller software makers to fill the void and gain marketshare with Mac OS X_

Right now, you have the classic chicken-and-egg scenario: Developers are cautious about investing too much time in Mac OS X, because there's no proof that the users will be there. And the users are cautious about switching to Mac OS X because the majority of developers aren't delivering the apps yet. Someone's going to have to budge, and I think the burden is on the developers. You can't expect a user base to just appear, you have to give them a reason to be there.

So, to answer the question, yes, I think for a smaller organization where there is not as much at stake, it's a no-brainer to want to be the first of whatever genre of apps on Mac OS X. Generally, whoever gets there first wins.

On the Panic website you've posted an essay about your early days as a programmer and how exciting and fun it was. Do you still find it so fresh and enjoyable_

Back then, I was just programming for myself and trying to learn things. Writing software that you intend to sell, and which must appeal to thousands of people is an entirely different experience. Both computers and their users are exponentially more sophisticated than they were twenty years ago. It's much harder to impress someone. But solving a problem -- getting something cool to happen on-screen, then sitting back and thinking, hey, look what I made this machine do -- that remains a very exciting feeling.

To follow up on that last question, you can see plainly that back then there were different opportunities for novices to get into programming. Do you think it is easier or harder for people to get into programming now and what can Apple do to encourage people to get into programming and build up that grassroots base of programmers_

It's both easier and harder. As a mechanical process, programming is easier. The tools for software development, although still crude compared to other types of engineering, have never been easier to learn and use than they are today.

Where it's harder is coming up with a novel idea -- something that hasn't been done before. You have to be much more creative now if you want your work to be noticed and recognized by other people.

Where do you hope to see Panic and Mac OS X in six months_

Panic I see probably in the thick of development of a brand new gizmo. Hopefully in a new office, with a couple extra programmers on staff. :)

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Thanks goes out to Steven for donating some of his time to do this interview. X Appeal wishes Panic and him luck in all future endeavors.

If you are interested in software for Mac OS X or developing for Mac OS X I encourage you to visit Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference website. It provides you with tons of great information about the upcoming event dedicated to Mac OS X